Agree that you have to show your dedication to urology by taking part in some type of research, preferably more than just a case report.
Additionally, doing research as a student will help you decide which programs to apply to and rank higher. If you like research you may consider applying to more academic oriented programs. If you don't like research, you will probably prefer programs with shorter research blocks and less requirements for publications.
If you like research, it can be difficult to find programs strong in academics with excellent clinical training. My perception is that most (not all) programs are not strong in both. However, there are few programs which are weak in both. Attendings can give you good input on which big name programs are not as strong clincally.
I was probably an anomaly because I had no urology research before starting residency. My only publication was 3rd author on a cardiology basic science paper. Perhaps I would have had more interviews at research oriented schools if I had done urology research.
It's not hard to finish a project. Ask any of the active faculty members and they will happily set you up. If unsure, the current residents will know who the faculty members most active in research are. Try to present your abstract at a meeting (i.e AUA, North Central Section, Endourology, SUO, etc.)
Research allows you to differentiate yourself from others. It shows your level of interest to Urology and provides more info to discuss during an interview. Start early in 3rd year and maybe you could have a publication or a poster to present at a national meeting.
I would argue that research is critical-- if only to understand how the process works which will enable better understanding of studies that you read in the future. Especially on away sub-i's, being able to discuss a paper critically is very impressive. Additionally, it is a really good way to get positive attention from bigger name staff members and to travel to meetings and meet people.
Getting involved in research is generally easy. Dr. Sundaram and Dr. Koch always have projects (as do many other staff). If you're hesitant to start a project that seems a bit overwhelming, try talking to the fellows who always have projects that they could use help finishing. The most important thing, however, is that if you commit to doing a project, you have to finish it. No matter what it takes.
Research is not only a way to differentiate yourself, but it an absolute must! It can be very intimidating if you have not done any clinical research before. Remember, for those novices, clinical research does not involve sitting a bench for hours and hours, like some may be used to in undergrad.
Unless you have previous experience in clinical research, I strongly recommend joining an already existing project. In my experience, the fellows were absolutely amazing and they will help you join a project and teach you want is needed.
While some baseline research is critical, research can also be a differentiating factor: (1) First author presentation that you present/publish before interviews and (2) the amount of research you have completed (first author or not).
Take home point: 1. Meet with the fellows and residents to get assigned to a project as soon as possible. If you are reading this, stop, and email one of the fellows right now.
2. Talk to faculty members to join or lead their projects (if comfortable)
3. Get it done! (esp if you are doing a project with Dr. Koch)
Research is a must, it affords an opportunity to build relationships with the residents/fellows/faculty and it demonstrates on your application that you are passionate/interested in urology.
The fellows are a great place to start since research is a large component of what they do. Dr. Bahler (minimally invasive) and Dr. Kaimakliotis (oncology) were very helpful in getting me involved in research. They are both going to be finishing their fellowships soon, but contacting them is a good place to start.
When you start a project, take it seriously, get things done. It took me a little while to understand that you always need to get your "task" done and put the ball back in the other persons court. You should not be the "slow" component of the project. If you have questions, thats fine but demonstrate that you tried to problem solve first.
Unfortunately, I did not have anything accepted at the time of application but did have a couple of things submitted. So published is great, but at least try to have something submitted when you apply.
Not having done research will limit your competitiveness in a highly competetive field. It is very easy to do a project and publish. Everyone has projects you can hop on. I would speak with Clint Bahler to get on a project because he is very active and helpful. Dr. Cain also offered to help get me on an easy project that would be published. IU is very active in research so there is no reason not to get involved. It is great experience and a good opportunity to help out and get to know the department
I worked under Dr. Sundaram, Clint Bahler, and a research fellow. I mainly did videos and retrospective outcomes papers. Get started as early as you can and make sure you finish the projects you're assigned. Getting started early puts you in good shape to actually get published in journals so you'll be able to present at conferences. Research is a good way to get to know the faculty so you can show them you're a hard worker, reliable, etc. This allows for a strong letter of recommendation.
Research isn't an absolute must but it definitely helps. We are definitely spoiled at Indiana right now because there is a lot available for students. The fellows have been really open to taking on more students and giving them projects. The residents are usually a little more busy, but they get their work done by the deadline. I was fortunate to work with the best research fellow in the world, and she defiantly made me a much better applicant than I would have been without her.
Some advice/tips.
Dr. Koch can be your biggest advocate if you do research with him. You probably will not have as much support as if you are working with Dr. Sundaram, but if you are determined and willing to ask for help, you can get it done.
Videos, are a great way to start as they require minimal urologic knowledge.
If you take on a project, expect to see it through.
Presenting at any of the meetings will seem really daunting but its not that bad. They know you are a medical student, and so they will go easy on you. Also, the residents/fellows/staff involved will be there to answer any questions you don't know. It is a great experience and will only help build confidence when you have to give sub-I presentations and more. My first presentation involved me stuttering for half the time. If I survived you will do great.
Try to get connected with the fellows. They are often much more accessible than the staff and they are always involved in lots of projects. Pick an area you think you may be interested in (peds, endo, onc) and ask the fellow if they have anything they need help on. Try to get connected with a project that you can really take on as your own - especially if you start early enough to turn it into a conference presentation or a paper.
Regardless of what you take on, see it through. Finish everything you promise to do.
12 comments:
Research is a "must" in my opinion because it both allows a faculty member to get to know you and shows your dedication to urology.
I did my first project, a caes report, with Dr. Sundaram. He is great to work with because he loves to teach and is very motivated to publish.
Agree that you have to show your dedication to urology by taking part in some type of research, preferably more than just a case report.
Additionally, doing research as a student will help you decide which programs to apply to and rank higher. If you like research you may consider applying to more academic oriented programs. If you don't like research, you will probably prefer programs with shorter research blocks and less requirements for publications.
If you like research, it can be difficult to find programs strong in academics with excellent clinical training. My perception is that most (not all) programs are not strong in both. However, there are few programs which are weak in both. Attendings can give you good input on which big name programs are not as strong clincally.
I was probably an anomaly because I had no urology research before starting residency. My only publication was 3rd author on a cardiology basic science paper. Perhaps I would have had more interviews at research oriented schools if I had done urology research.
It's not hard to finish a project. Ask any of the active faculty members and they will happily set you up. If unsure, the current residents will know who the faculty members most active in research are. Try to present your abstract at a meeting (i.e AUA, North Central Section, Endourology, SUO, etc.)
Research allows you to differentiate yourself from others. It shows your level of interest to Urology and provides more info to discuss during an interview. Start early in 3rd year and maybe you could have a publication or a poster to present at a national meeting.
I would argue that research is critical-- if only to understand how the process works which will enable better understanding of studies that you read in the future. Especially on away sub-i's, being able to discuss a paper critically is very impressive. Additionally, it is a really good way to get positive attention from bigger name staff members and to travel to meetings and meet people.
Getting involved in research is generally easy. Dr. Sundaram and Dr. Koch always have projects (as do many other staff). If you're hesitant to start a project that seems a bit overwhelming, try talking to the fellows who always have projects that they could use help finishing. The most important thing, however, is that if you commit to doing a project, you have to finish it. No matter what it takes.
Research is not only a way to differentiate yourself, but it an absolute must! It can be very intimidating if you have not done any clinical research before. Remember, for those novices, clinical research does not involve sitting a bench for hours and hours, like some may be used to in undergrad.
Unless you have previous experience in clinical research, I strongly recommend joining an already existing project. In my experience, the fellows were absolutely amazing and they will help you join a project and teach you want is needed.
While some baseline research is critical, research can also be a differentiating factor: (1) First author presentation that you present/publish before interviews and (2) the amount of research you have completed (first author or not).
Take home point:
1. Meet with the fellows and residents to get assigned to a project as soon as possible. If you are reading this, stop, and email one of the fellows right now.
2. Talk to faculty members to join or lead their projects (if comfortable)
3. Get it done! (esp if you are doing a project with Dr. Koch)
Research is a must, it affords an opportunity to build relationships with the residents/fellows/faculty and it demonstrates on your application that you are passionate/interested in urology.
The fellows are a great place to start since research is a large component of what they do. Dr. Bahler (minimally invasive) and Dr. Kaimakliotis (oncology) were very helpful in getting me involved in research. They are both going to be finishing their fellowships soon, but contacting them is a good place to start.
When you start a project, take it seriously, get things done. It took me a little while to understand that you always need to get your "task" done and put the ball back in the other persons court. You should not be the "slow" component of the project. If you have questions, thats fine but demonstrate that you tried to problem solve first.
Unfortunately, I did not have anything accepted at the time of application but did have a couple of things submitted. So published is great, but at least try to have something submitted when you apply.
Not having done research will limit your competitiveness in a highly competetive field. It is very easy to do a project and publish. Everyone has projects you can hop on. I would speak with Clint Bahler to get on a project because he is very active and helpful. Dr. Cain also offered to help get me on an easy project that would be published. IU is very active in research so there is no reason not to get involved. It is great experience and a good opportunity to help out and get to know the department
I worked under Dr. Sundaram, Clint Bahler, and a research fellow. I mainly did videos and retrospective outcomes papers. Get started as early as you can and make sure you finish the projects you're assigned. Getting started early puts you in good shape to actually get published in journals so you'll be able to present at conferences. Research is a good way to get to know the faculty so you can show them you're a hard worker, reliable, etc. This allows for a strong letter of recommendation.
Research isn't an absolute must but it definitely helps. We are definitely spoiled at Indiana right now because there is a lot available for students. The fellows have been really open to taking on more students and giving them projects. The residents are usually a little more busy, but they get their work done by the deadline. I was fortunate to work with the best research fellow in the world, and she defiantly made me a much better applicant than I would have been without her.
Some advice/tips.
Dr. Koch can be your biggest advocate if you do research with him. You probably will not have as much support as if you are working with Dr. Sundaram, but if you are determined and willing to ask for help, you can get it done.
Videos, are a great way to start as they require minimal urologic knowledge.
If you take on a project, expect to see it through.
Presenting at any of the meetings will seem really daunting but its not that bad. They know you are a medical student, and so they will go easy on you. Also, the residents/fellows/staff involved will be there to answer any questions you don't know. It is a great experience and will only help build confidence when you have to give sub-I presentations and more. My first presentation involved me stuttering for half the time. If I survived you will do great.
First project was a video with Dr. Sundaram.
Try to get connected with the fellows. They are often much more accessible than the staff and they are always involved in lots of projects. Pick an area you think you may be interested in (peds, endo, onc) and ask the fellow if they have anything they need help on. Try to get connected with a project that you can really take on as your own - especially if you start early enough to turn it into a conference presentation or a paper.
Regardless of what you take on, see it through. Finish everything you promise to do.
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